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Cornering Technique Inline Skating Video with Bill Begg

andrewinnc's picture

Bonttv has put back online the second in a training with Bill Begg video series. This video shows the proper cornering technique with Nicole and Wayne Begg, as well as Bill giving commentary. For those who are working to improve their double push Wayne gives an excellent example at the end of the video.

http://www.bonttv.com/view_video.php?viewkey=e5646ef5a30154e9f6de

Comments

roadskater's picture

Really good inline skating speedskating video

Some of that advice is a bit different from what Eddy teaches and a bit more like what Chad had to say in Central Park at the loop when we finally got him in a small enough space to be nearby.

As with Chad, Nicole seems (to me) to have a bit of a heel-out/toe-in particularly on her left leg (See :24 and :27). Some of this is turning the body, but look at :32 to see what I'm talking about. Eddy says get your hip into it and "wave to the crowd," and this shows there's a different approach that works for others. You can feel the weight shift when you do that wave to the crowd gig (rotating your shoulders a bit away from the turn). I guess it comes down to what works for your body and brain (I know, the brain is the body and the body is the brain, or so some would say, real bodiacs).

Also on her left leg, it looks to me that she cocks her ankle out a bit to get more bite out of it I guess (See :44 and :49 even :54 and :59). Interesting they don't show much of her on the straight (of course the vid is about cornering). Some of this is probably because of the track banking, but I think it's there even going into the turn. In that last segment of hers, on the straight, I don't see much dp, but she's perhaps winding down...or maybe she doesn't rely on dp on the track?

I think Wayne does this heel out ankle cocked outward too. I think he gets more double push (the underpush part of it) out of his left leg, and it seems many of us are unequal in this respect...meaning our two sides don't get equal results on the underpush and outerpush. I'm sure much of this is geometry and another big part is practicing counterclockwise so much (even in Country Park, ha).

I'm not meaning to be negative, rather just to observe and maybe give myself a break for having an unequal, awkward, double-half-push, at best! The vids are good. It'd be great to see some vid of these two on the roads to see what they look like there.

The early crossover part of the video was a good view of how you can indeed crossover and have all of the underleg's wheels on the ground long enough to get good push out of it.

eebee's picture

Extension on Underpush

Having your support leg bent - the more the better - helps stretch that underpush-leg out free and clear. I've noticed people having a hard time at workshops in getting their underpush-leg out far enough to 'pop the balloon', much less keep all wheels on the ground. It's hard to cross your legs like that if the leg that's crossing over is almost straight. If you've got quad-muscles of steel, you too can be a human gyroscope.

 

I enjoyed watching Nicole B's skating in this video as it seemed more human to me somehow. I've never seen her doing any kind of double push, incidentally, but then I haven't gone searching for video clips of her doing it, either. I get a real kick out of seeing the guys DP'ing, but have wondered (and was going to write about at some point) if DP isn't more of a guy-skating thing. Argh! Now I need to go wash my brain out with soap and water for even thinking that!!

andrewinnc's picture

Re: comments

Blake and Eebee you both make some excellent points and observations. 

I read an article by Susan Ellis where she said, "Upper body position, This means having a compact belly to thigh position with a slightly rounded and relaxed back. Belly to thigh means that the lower part of your belly, below your belly button, is touching, or close to, the upper part of your thigh just below where it joins your torso." I have noticed when I can get my body into this position, I feel like I have a stronger push. It also helps me to keep all the wheels in contact with the pavement. 

As far as Nicoles DP, I have watched several videos of different outdoor inline championships and most of the women do not look like they are doing the DP. Watch a video of Joey Mantia DP'ing, he does it on every stroke. 

eebee's picture

Funny you should mention that

"...the lower part of your belly, below your belly button, is touching, or close to, the upper part of your thigh..."

 

That's weird. I was out doing that yesterday after it got too dark to skate on the trail. I was thinking of the Bill & Nicole Begg video where she's demonstrating the nose-knees-toes triangle, resting her elbow on her mid-thigh and her chin on the fist of the same arm. After a few months' muscle atrophy, this was hard for me to do yesterday without falling over. But it's a good way to get down lower instead of just imagining I'm skating lower! I can't say that I got my belly on my thighs though, because I was mainly concentrating on the knee-bend. 

roadskater's picture

Thoughts on Nicole Begg Inline Skating Speedskating Drills Video

Great video, eebee. Thanks for pointing it out. There are at least two really good drills, the one you mentioned and the first one, the outside edges drill. Seems like that would work some good muscles.

It also confirms something (to me at least) I thought I noticed before. She can cock her knee in to get a bit more push. It seems her right leg does this a bit more. Maybe it's my imagination. Some people would find it easier to bow their legs out; others in. Inward seems more useful to me for double pushing.

It's very cool at :11 how the wheels are almost touching, and this video shows (to me) that he is trying to develop strength not just in the legs but in the ankles as well. If I see it correctly, this drill is to help you cock that ankle out for more grip on the underpush (the outside edge part of the drill). And I'll just go on and take a chance on being an idiot (again) and say I think her right ankle does this better from all of the left turns.

Kick the ball is like Pop the Balloon. Fun. Good stuff.

roadskater's picture

Macho or Power to Weight or Wisdom

Yeah I've been that person that couldn't do those things! 

Speaking of the belly. No problem. I can get low enough to make my belly touch my knees. then I get off the couch...ba dum pshh...we'll be here at the casino all week, thanguvurymush. 

I've been the one who could do those drills on other days, or other years. As I was noticing on rare days skating of late, you can lose it! You can get it back too, sometimes, or go beyond. And as ever, weight (within my own weight ranges I mean here, but not just that) makes a huge difference...especially power to weight ratio.

Maybe, if guys in fact so double push more (or make it look like they are even if not getting much out of it), it's a competitive thing just to be able to say you can do it.

Let me hasten to say I've met some competitive women!

Maybe if more guys do double push it is because perhaps it works better for heavier people in general? (I'm not sure I believe this, especially on smooth surfaces.)

I don't know how many people who DP do it all the time, as their everyday regular and full marathon stroke, and how many just use it for a sprint or when the video cameras are on. I think one difference between, say Eddy and Dan, vis-a-vis Chad, is that Eddy and Dan have a more metronomic, smooth, calm, efficient DP for the long distance, and Chad has a more active, swaying, powerful but costly style. I don't know, but this is what I think based on where they excel distance-wise.

Maybe it's a balance thing. Maybe in general more women have practiced and valued balance and glide?

I have done what in my mind is a double push and sometimes I get it right and it seems faster but at the cost of much higher heart rate, and very few times I can get a little out of it when I need it without it costing heartbeats. Sometime I realize I used it briefly without thinking about it beforehand (and if you just want to laugh at all this please let me have my illusions).

I think in headwind and on rough surfaces it should be more helpful to DP, but I don't know about that. I'm basing that on how ice speedskating is mostly classic push with few exceptions. I know Chad Hedrick skates DP sometimes on ice but I wonder what the long term result of that will be, even for his style. I would imagine in the sprints he DPs more than in the "long" distance events.

There are definitely some women on inlines that do the DP and some of them are very light and very tall and they seem to get a ton out of it. But don't get me started on tall skinny people! I like to say hi to them at the start, and when they get back to the finish line after their shower to welcome me to the finish.

andrewinnc's picture

Chad Hedrick in Korea

Here is a video of Chad in Korea showing his incredible double push. The video has been slowed down so you can see the mechanics of it. Smooth and effortless with lots of power. http://youtube.com/watch?v=IyKFW5lFwOU Notice his body going up and down like a piston, as he puts all his weight onto the push out leg. Transfers a lot of power that way.
eebee's picture

It's Lovely, Bobbing Along...

Some schools of thought teach that upper body up-and-down-bobbing wastes precious energy. Looking at that slow-mo video, the skaters at the beginning are bobbing too, but Chad bobs less and mostly due to his legs extending, rather than the heave-ho of his torso. 

 

If you're as fast as Chad H., I guess you can pretty much bob as much as you like!

roadskater's picture

Thoughts on Chad Hedrick Inline Skating Double Push Video Korea

OK. I have a few minutes to go through this and it'll be fun. When I was around Chad I asked him if anyone had ever said one side of his double push was stronger than the other. Something like that. He grinned and said something like, "Yeah. I think my [x] leg is stronger." True or not, that's how I remember it.

Anyway, while I was not thrilled with that first day of the "clinic" at Central Park, it got better later in the week at the oval (old news for most of you who've hear my stories too often). And these few moments talking with him and observing were good introductions to something I was only beginning to begin to understand. He has been plenty cocky in front of the cameras, but he was chill and friendly these days at the park. Now to the video...

At :09 take a look how his right is heel out or toe-in. Try it with your skates on. Seems to me heel out is a way to make your hip go out. Maybe not for others, ha! Then, unlike the way Eddy does it, I would claim, Chad's shoulders bob or weave and go outside his hips. Whatever you do to make it happen, you don't have a double push if your weight is not outside of your underpush. Lead with your hips or weave your shoulders, but as much weight as possible has to be outside the underpushing foot (to the right of the right leg) to do anything other than go up and down.

On his left, I think he more is more likely to set down straight, then make an arc under. Just seems that way to me. In general, and he has said it, I think he lands toe-in, on either side, whereas Eddy says set down straight. Both work great for them!

Recalling his talk at the loop, he mentioned skiing and said he tends to set down parallel to his outerpush skate, not parallel to his direction of travel. Again, in general it seems he focuses more on power and less on efficiency. Those monster muscles help, I'd say. He's pretty tall as I recall, and definitely made to power skate.

By the way, isn't that Eddy on the right at :26 and straight back to :42? Methinks that's his white Twin-Cam jersey and white helmet from 2 or 3 years back. There's no doubt he's matching strokes a lot of the time, and I say he's gathering data of some sort for later in the day.

At :45 you can get that Chad thinks it's OK to push back...sometimes almost 45 degrees. Just keep all the wheels down as long as you can. That's what they all agree on for the most part, including Bill Begg.

At :50, you can see that maybe at this point he's nowhere near full out, as his underpush leg is not straightening that dramatically. It's nowhere near as extended as the outerpush.

Who knows what they do, and I'm sure it changes day to day, year to year, but what they say they do is different enough to make it even more interesting. Seems like Hedrick and Publow have a style good for up to 26 miles, and Eddy and Dan and others have the efficiency to go the 87 in the hills of Georgia.

Either way it's a beautiful thing to watch a powerful person flying on the earth on wheels!

 

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